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@hakan_geijer now I’m imagining a commune growing around an occupied medieval castle. If the cops come we simply barricade ourselves inside. What can they even do at that point? (Except a siege I guess, I suppose we should keep large amounts of canned food and water and stuff inside, and some solar panels and batteries and stuff… we could even build a wind turbine)
@hakan_geijer i love how anachronistic this is. I suppose the threat is, as it was back then, ladders.
@hakan_geijer I think it’s kind of funny how with cops not (usually) using stuff like heavy artillery, tactics of activists in some ways resemble medieval warfare. I mean an eviction attempt is a kind of siege, and so occupations use tactics against a siege, somewhat like in a time of history when sieges were very common.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @hakan_geijer I've thought we need cavalry tactics. But I've not been near the front in quite a long time.
@foolishowl @enby_of_the_apocalypse I think we need more small fast autonomous groups but also people to understand momentum and committing to a movement so when one group sees an opening, everyone swarms. Cops are heavy and slow, and if we armor up the same then we're going to only increase the violence they use while forcing direct combat that has higher penalties. Hitting a col vs smashing a window for example. I suspect light infantry style (helmets, hard gloves, goggles) protects against most of what the cops do so a charge against a line gets a lot less scary, but we don't sacrifice speed and agility. This means the vanguard that slams the line first can fully commit. Often the front bloc hesitating kills momentum that could easily overwhelm the cops. Idk. Maybe you have a different idea of calvary than me
@hakan_geijer @enby_of_the_apocalypse I was thinking that the emphasis with cavalry is on fast movement to evade and harass heavy infantry. I'm most thinking of light cavalry, who in the late 19th century tended to hybridize with light infantry anyway. The difference is mounts, and I don't know if that would be realistic at all on city streets.
@foolishowl @hakan_geijer mounts are unrealistic (and animal abuse), but this made me think of bicycles. I guess critical masses are the closest thing to that.
@foolishowl @hakan_geijer and cops would just respond to that with motorcycles if they know there’s people on bicycles.
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @foolishowl Cops already use motorcycles to harass protesters. France and Greece are notorious for this (see the Deltas). Bikes aren't so nimble even if they give speed. You can't hop a wall or even minor barriers, and with the increased speed, injuries become worse. Bumping your front tire on someone is going to send you and everyone behind you down. I don't really see this happening on foot so often, as a comparison point.
I think bikes could be interesting for causing chaos on the edges of an action that force cops to spread thinner, but often people hope to be "part of the masses" so they can yeet stones and be protected by others. Small bicycle squads lose a lot of that. Maybe the hardened core @'s could do that, but I'm not sure it would be broadly appealing.
But often the most interesting target of an action is the thing most heavily protected by the police with portable barriers, so I don't see bikes helping with that.
Maybe if we got real advanced and mostly hit softer targets when the main targets are well-guarded, and if we got much better at small autonomous groups causing chaos, that *could* be viable, but oddly I don't see much of a path toward that.
Other notes: can't "debloc" as easily (small group of cyclists might stand out regardless). Can't duck into a store as a cop car whips past. Can't hide in pedestrian traffic.
I love bikes, but I don't see them being as effective as one might imagine. Someone prove me wrong please.
@hakan_geijer @enby_of_the_apocalypse @foolishowl In an american context police often prep a few blocks away and circle protests at similar distances, while protests only span a couple blocks and can be rather immobile. Barriers and the like are not present, and motorcycle cops are rare or non-existant as they seem to favor paddy wagons and other cars in protest settings. Harrassing those prepping would be great as a hit to morale at the very least, not really sure what other options there are since most people need one hand on the bike
@cyronimose @hakan_geijer @foolishowl in Europe they do use motorcycles, mostly to redirect traffic when there’s marches.
@foolishowl @hakan_geijer I’ve had many of those thoughts immediately after writing that
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @hakan_geijer I was thinking of bicycles, but then I was thinking about how fragile and expensive they are, and how easily cops can block a street.
It also crosses my mind that there are two important things about horses that don't apply to bicycles: first, that horses are sentient, recognize and respond to threats their rider may miss, and that a horse and rider work together; second, horses can overbear people on foot. Bicyclists don't have these advantages.
@hakan_geijer @foolishowl horses can be really dangerous to other people who are on foot. Which means that a horse also needs to maintain some distance to a crowd of protestors. Horses are also animals whose instinct it is to flee, police horses for example, or warhorses in history need(ed) a lot of training to not just panic and run away in a situation that scares them, such as a protest (and I think that putting a horse in a situation like that is animal abuse, considering how much it scares them). Cops do use horses in protests occasionally, and that is both animal abuse and the horse also becomes a weapon in that situation that they might use for police brutality against protestors. The danger and the animal abuse of bringing horses to a protest is why I think no one should ever do that.
@foolishowl @hakan_geijer (not to mention ofc that only rich people can afford to keep horses, and keeping horses is incredibly time intensive too. And it’s not that hard to identify them and their owners)
@enby_of_the_apocalypse @hakan_geijer Yeah, I think for both ethical and practical reasons, using horses is totally out of the question.