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Conspiracy theorists (CTs; people believing in conspiracies that are considered unproven by the masses) and the Left.

Leftists could easily be considered CTs, as "we" usually believe US, NATO, WTO, The West conspires to undermine worker movements as their leadership secretly in bed with big biz. A conspiracy.

Though I often find hostility against CTs in leftist circles. Why? Sure some conspiracy stories are HUGE fashy dog whistles, but apart from that... Why not "tolerance"?

@abura the essence of modern(?) conspiracy theories is anti-semitism. this goes all the way back to thousands of years of european anti-semite history.

also there is an important difference between people who feel that e.g. the USA or the west are bad and who know how capital(ism) works and critizise (on theoretical or practical levels) the workings of the world

@abura maybe it helps talking about specific theories. in my experience, as soon as you hit "IMF" you're usually only seconds away from "secret jewish world government". i guess the implications raised like that need no discussion

@abura
Can't answer to the bigger question, but I can note that conspiracy are supposed to be a secret.
Something that isn't really a secret to anyone isn't a conspiracy, it's just a power dynamic disguised by narrative.

@NicholasLaney @abura I would second this. It's not a theory that the former CEO of Exxon was Trump's secretary of State. Nor is it a theory that 8 men own as much wealth as the poorest 3.6 billion people on Earth. These are just historical facts. We're not making guesses or leaping to conclusions. We've got receipts.

@abura @NicholasLaney well, no, it's also a fact that the NSA renewed a $10b contract with Amazon for use of their AWS servers to store data gathered from surveillance. This is a fact, not a theory.

Now if you're really attached to this idea and you just wanna go down the "subjective experience vs. objective reality" rabbit hole, I'll just leave you to it. I've already been on that ride a dozen times.

@abura @NicholasLaney The US government *openly* contracts with private companies to do almost everything under the sun.

Re: "conspiracy theory" vs. theorized conspiracy 

@abura As I recently said to someone else, I see a fundamental distinction between "conspiracy theories" and ordinary theorized conspiracies. The essential core of a conspiracy theory is the claim that some secretive person or group, somewhere, is in charge of this massive clusterfuck we all live in and has all-pervasive, nigh-inescapable power within it.

That power could be ascribed to "lizard people" (dog-whistle: Jews), or "Bill Gates & his minions", or the "deep state" (AKA the ordinary civil service), or anyone else. But if it's posited to exist, and to be everywhere even though nobody can bring receipts that stand up under close scrutiny, then what you have is a conspiracy theory—probably false, simply because nobody is in charge to that extent. Otherwise, it's a theorized conspiracy.

Powerful people do underhanded things and try to cover it up. All the time. The question is, which ones?

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